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48v 1500W (replaced by 1600W) brushless motor install on Razor MX650

Important Message from the Forum Moderator
The test results in this forum post are relevant to the discontinued 48 Volt 1500 Watt 5300 RPM Boma brushless motor. We removed the links to the 1500 Watt 5300 RPM motor and replaced them with links to the 1600 Watt 4800 RPM motor. Please be aware the test results posted below will be close to but not exactly the same when using the 1600 Watt 4800 RPM motor.  


I posted elsewhere here that I had ordered the motor under a thread about hub motors.  New thread for this.

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Message from the Forum Moderator

The 48 Volt 1600 Watt 4800 RPM motor, speed controller, and other parts are available at ElectricScooterParts.com:
https://electricscooterparts.com/motors48volt.html
https://electricscooterparts.com/speedcontrollers48volt.html

A complete ready to install kit for the MX500, MX650, and SX500 is also available at ElectricScooterParts.com:
https://cart.electricscooterparts.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=KIT-MX481600-1


Original brushed 650w motor 9 lbs 1.1oz, 134mm L, 107.7mm Diam, 11.9mm shaft Diam.

New brushless 1500w motor 8 lbs 4.7oz    134mm L, 107.4mm Diam, 11.7mm shaft Diam


Original ESC (electronic Speed Controller) 13 oz

Brushless ESC 1 lb 2.4 oz


Overall the new system is about half a pound lighter


The sprocket on the original motor swapped directly on the the brushless motor with no modifications and was a perfect fit so I ran with it.  One point to notice is that from the face of the stock motor to the middle of the sprocket was 14mm.  From the face of the brushless motor to the middle of the sprocket was 16mm.  This was resolved by putting a 2mm washer in between the face of the motor and the motor mount thereby holding the motor back such that the sprocket was in the original position.  You'll notice there was a 10mm difference in length so on the backside I needed 8mm spacers to make up the difference.  A combination of a spacer and a washer was perfect.  Ace Hardware had them.  The mounting holes were identical to that of the original motor and the original bolts were long enough that they could be used so the swap was easy.  The new ESC is a bit larger but will still fit in the existing location.  I placed it up where the 3rd lead battery went as I'm not using that area.


I picked up 2 Controllers as the good folks here at Electric Scooter Parts were kind enough to shoot me a personal email when they saw what I was doing.  They accurately noted that if I only got the 48v controller it would likely have a cut off around 36 volts and not allow me to do much testing at 36volts for direct comparison to the stock set up.  THANKS GUYS.  It was only $45 more to add a 36v controller.  Cost was $325 before I added the 2nd controller.


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Results will be posted as we get a chance to get it out and tested.  Should be over the next two days.

Mounting

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Brake lever are aluminum compared to stock as plastic.  They are also slightly closer to the handles making them a little better suited to smaller hands of younger folks.  Throttle has a voltmeter on it and accurately shows the voltage.  It also requires the key to be turned for it to work.  The many wires on the controller are clearly marked and can also support brake lights, turn signals, a charge port and something that says 'double speed'.  Not sure what that is.  There are no instructions.

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I installed a volt, watt, current and capacity meter that I bought on Ebay seperately.  It fit nicely into the what looks like a gas tank.  I'm using a GPS from Eagle Tree to get the speed readings.  It holds the highest speed reached so it's not necessary to look down while riding.

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Nice work you did nice to see there are a few of us that love doing scooter and so on . It's cool to play around . I have problems with controller Iv got 4 of them now not one of them worked . Ok 1 I may of blown up . But the standard razer one I have even taken that apart so when I get told by the shop I got it from that I must of wired it up wrong & would not send one more out I gave up with them . So now I play around with the standard controller . I no I did all the wires right went over it 2/3 times befor plugging in the ends but no the motor went hard on . But then I am now using two 24v motors & switch it to 36v when needed . So not to bad as if I had a 36v controller I could not overvoult the motors . What is grate fun . A 350w & 250w 24v to a 36v giving me 1100w motor and at 24v it's like a 600w motor so a win win . Anyway grate work keep it up
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Test results

The stock 12v batteries fully charged are 14.4v per battery or  43.2v fully charged.  We removed and replaced with 10 cell Lithium Polymer batteries which are 42.0v when fully charged.


With original motor and controller in a small park nearby with a long gentle slope of not more than 1 or 2 degrees we recorded the following and repeated for the new motor and controller.

Original motor

16mph uphill at 22A

17mph downhill at 17A


New motor and 36v controller

18mph uphill at 27A

20mph downhill at 21A


We attempted to run another test with 11 Cells using a combination of the 10s cells just used so partially depleted.  Would normally be at 46.2v fully charged but likely around 44volts here.  The controller would not arm so we couldn't run it.  This controller states 36v or 48v at 500W.  My guess is that 44 volts was near the cut off for the 48v set up.  Four 12volt lead acid batteries fully charged would be 57.6v so it's reasonable to assume I was in the cut off range.  We've replaced the 36v controller with the 48v controller and it arms at 11 cells so we'll test it (may cut off quickly as voltage drops below cut off point) at 11 cells (46.2v), 12 cells 50.4v and possibly 13 cells (54.6v) depending on the current and watts we see in 11 and 12 cell testing.  Don't want to over do it.


THanks for posting Jamie, that's some interesting stuff you have going on there.

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Let me no the top end & how it ran as the lead battery's r heavy. I just wished I could take the limit off . The metal bar that's carries the voult so I been told , u can make it thinker , tryed that but still not start on 36v just clicks . & Iv been told u can put wire onto it then put it to ground - have you seen anything about that . Or the way TK a utube member did it and he also put a wire across the back of the board to cross the relay out . Have you seen or no anything about doing this . Do u think this work work . Iv can not get anymore controller . Iv wasted so much cash on them
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I believe these are final results until I either change a sprocket or learn how to use the "Double Speed" connector lead from the controller.  Tony is looking into it but his supplier is out until the end of Chinese New Year.

Repeated here are the stock results with 10s lipo and the Brushless (BL) motor results on the 36v controller.  New are the data from 11s, 12s, 13s and 14s LiPo with the 48v controller.  All tests are off road in the grass with just a minor long consistant slope.  We tested down the slope then back up.

                                                         Downhill runs                                          Uphill runs

 Initial battery voltage              Current           Speed (MPH)                    Current     Speed (MPH)

Stock motor 42V  (10s LiPo)       17A               17mph                                22               16

BL motor 36v controller 42v        21A               20mph                                27               18

BL motor 48v controller 45.5v     20                  24                                       28               19

49.2v          (12s LiPo)                21                  25                                       27               21

52.6v          (13s LiPo)                22                  26                                       28               23

56v             (14s LiPo)                24                  27                                       28               23


With the brushless system you'll notice the current stays pretty steady at 27-28Amps on the uphill runs.  I had a separate telemetry system showing me the current real time as the rider also read the built in meter.  I noticed that the telemetry system showed the current would run just above 30 amps for a split second then was held below 30amps continuously.  I'm assuming the controller is limiting the current going to the motor to 30 Amps.  The torque is greatly increased over stock allowing steep uphill runs we tested in a different location.


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More results

On 14s LiPo (58v) we managed 27mph on paved surface level to very slight uphill.  This was after several test runs up a steep hill.  Steep uphill speed results will be shown and compared with results compared to using the 89 tooth rear sprocket which should give a little higher torque and perhaps higher speed during hill climbs compared to the stock 80 tooth rear sprocket.


The "Double Speed" connector coming off the controller was attached to a handle bar push button ordered from the good folks here at Electric Scooter Parts (89mm sprocket as well).  When pushing the button to connect the circuit the speed is cut roughly in half.  It affects only the top end speed of  27mph being cut to 17mph.  Interestingly it didn't affect hill climb speed at all as it was under 17mph at full power.  We used this when our younger son wanted to try riding this bigger MX650 bike after having ridden the MX350.  It was nice being able to limit the speed for him to give it a try.

More results

On 14s LiPo (58v) we managed 27mph on paved surface level to very slight uphill.  This was after several test runs up a steep hill.  Steep uphill speed results will be shown and compared with results compared to using the 89 tooth rear sprocket which should give a little higher torque and perhaps higher speed during hill climbs compared to the stock 80 tooth rear sprocket.


The "Double Speed" connector coming off the controller was attached to a handle bar push button ordered from the good folks here at Electric Scooter Parts (89mm sprocket as well).  When pushing the button to connect the circuit the speed is cut roughly in half.  It affects only the top end speed of  27mph being cut to 17mph.  Interestingly it didn't affect hill climb speed at all as it was under 17mph at full power.  We used this when our younger son wanted to try riding this bigger MX650 bike after having ridden the MX350.  It was nice being able to limit the speed for him to give it a try.

Nice project has been great fun reading about it. If we did not try this stuff out then it would be a boring standard life we live in lol. Keep up the good work . I am still playing around with mine scooter, would like to swop to lipo batteries but will need to order the charger & so on before taking the scooter apart again. But overvolting from 24v to 36v has made a big difference.going to 48v would be too much and heat up the motor but for now, it's not getting too hot & the razor standard controller after u tricked it to take 36v is a good controller. The fed's that r in there will take the 36v no problem . It's just the relay lol. Witch can be bypassed. Anyway keep on posting your work as there is some of us that love to see what others are doing 

With this 48v 1500 watt motor and stock sprockets my son is now able to get air off a hill that the stock motor/battery set up was lucking just to  make it to the top,  We did a few more tests on hills to see the difference between stock sprockets and switching rear sprocket from stock 80 tooth to an 89 tooth sprocket from electric scooter parts.  While the difference is only about 11 percent and top end speed drop was 1mph the torque increase was huge.  My son said he had to get into throttle slowly are start from a roll to avoid popping a wheelie.  Soon he was learning to add throttle more slowly to avoid the wheelie.  I hopped on and each time I took off with 3/4 to full throttle it popped a wheelie.

Test results in miles per hour.  Anywhere a downhill is tested the stock sprockets are slightly faster.  Anywhere there is an uphill requiring more torque the 89 tooth sprocket provide the extra torque to go a little faster.  The 89 tooth sprocket requires adding 5 links to the existing chain.


                                                                          Stock sprockets               89 tooth rear sprocket

Up sidewalk very slight uphill                                  27                                          27

Down same sidewalk                                            29                                           28


In park (grass/dirt) slight downhill                            27                                         26

park slight uphill                                                      23                                         24


Steep park uphill 10 meter from hill base               11mph                                  12

Steep park uphill start at base                                9                                          10


The attached photo shows a run up the short steep hill.  In the background you can see the incline of the sidewalk where the speed test was run up and down.  Ran about 100 meters on the sidewalk.

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This project is awesome! I am a motorcycle parts dealer/repair/upgrade shop and we've been playing around with the razor stuff just for our selves (not for clients, we're not an authorized Razor dealer or anything). Sometimes it's really fun to put away the 400+ horsepower Hayabusas and hop on a little electric bike. I was thinking about doing something fun with the MX-650 I've been riding around, and I think this is it. I was thinking of something along the lines of a 48V 22ah lithium battery though since I have one laying around from an electric bike that was stolen while the battery was on the charger. Would love to see a run video of this little beast in action. 


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