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EcoSmart Battery upgrade 36v to 48v, other mod options

I'm about to start a new commuter season on my EcoSmart.  I noticed the batteries started to loose some of their endurance and output towards the end of the fall. They've been through about 130 charge cycles.  I ride to the train about two miles with a pretty good grade in both directions.  On the ride home at night, it started to run out of juice the last few weeks.  So, I'm going to refurb and tweak it and need some advice.


New higher output batteries?  Pluses and negatives.  Options.


Upgrading from 36v to 48v?  What does this affect?  (There's a detailed youtube on performing this upgrade)


Bigger motor?  Change sprocket?


For instance, if I went to a 750watt motor with 4 12v (48v) batteries, what would that give me?  


Can I turn this frame into a speed demon that will fly up the hill and do about 25mph on the flat?    


I want more torque/speed for the uphill portions of the ride.  In the morning it's steep climb to a long down hill and at night after the scooter has been sitting for 9 hours it's the opposite, a long uphill grade with a short thrill ride.  


Thanks.

The only negative aspect regarding higher output batteries is that they will weigh a little more than the original batteries.If you upgrade to 9Ah they weigh 0.7 pounds more than 8Ah batteries so there would only be 2.1 extra pounds added though which is not a lot of weight. If you went with batteries higher than 9Ah then the footplate would need to be raised or other modification might be necessary.


An upgrade from 36 Volts to 48 Volts would increase the power and top speed of the scooter significantly however if the original 36 Volt motor was still used then it would run hotter than normal and its lifespan could be lowered depending upon how hot it got while the scooter was being driven. Overvolting the battery pack and using the original speed controller and motor is like hot rodding them and there will be more power and better performance however the reliability of these parts will not be as good as if they were used at their rated Voltage. Some people overvolt controllers and motors and they last a long time, while other people overvolt these parts only to find them burn out in a very short amount of time.


A bigger motor with a smaller sprocket on it and a bigger controller will result in higher top speeds and better hill climbing ability, along with good reliability so long as the gear ratio is appropriate for the motor size.


A 750 Watt motor could be geared for a 20 mph top speed and would be good at climbing hills.


A 1000 Watt motor could be geared for a 25 mph top speed and would be good at climbing hills.


For steep hill climbs with torque and speed, horsepower is the requirement so using the most powerful motor as possible would give the best results. I think that you would be very satisfied with a 1000 watt motor geared for 20 mph top speed. With that size of motor along with relatively low gearing for it, the uphill performance would be very good. You could also gear a 1000 watt motor for a 25 mph top speed however it would slow down more uphill with that gear ratio than it would with a 20 mph gear ratio.


Please let us know if you have any questions.

Hi ESP Team,


Thanks for the input. One of my concerns is if the motor mounting needs to be modified or there is a standard bolt spacing/pattern.  Looking at the replacement motors and the original, I can't tell how the upgraded motor would mount.  I think my first step is to disassemble the scooter a little and see what it looks like.  Regarding the gearing, do I only need to change the size of the sprocket on the motor or would we change both?


Parts List (preliminary):


Motor - 1000W  MOT-481000   $130

Charger  CHR-48V1.6AXLR - $50

Batteries - 4 x  UB1280ZH @ $25 each

Controller - 48V 1000W (not sure which one) $60

Throttle 48V  $25

Sprockets  - not sure.

Upgrade to disc brakes?  

Wiring harness parts and connectors


All in for about $400? 

Hi guys 

I have a Razor Eco-smart Metro that I recently purchased new. I'm looking to upgrade using your 1000 watt motor (MOT-481000) mated to a 48V 1000watt controller and 48V throttle. (I will be purchasing a 48V charger also. I plan on using the stock gearing since I ride mostly flat ground. I want to do this upgrade right so it is reliable. So my first question is am I on the right track as far as what I need to purchase to make this upgrade and second what batteries (model and number) do you recommend to get the optimum performance out of the swap. I don't mind raising the bamboo deck if needed. I commute less than 2.5 miles round trip to work everyday and plan to use the scooter for a daily commuter. Also do I need a different wiring harness. I will be ordering all the parts from you so any help will be greatly appreciated.


Hi bno, the Razor EcoSmart electric scooter motor is unique to the EcoSmart so I do not know of any other motors that would mount the way it does. Mounting a different motor onto the EcoSmart scooter would probably require a custom installation.

Depending one the gear ratio that you choose either the motor or wheel sprocket could be changed, or both the motor and wheel sprocket could be changed.

All of the parts in your parts list are compatible with each other. Any controller rated at 48 Volt and 1000 Watts or higher is compatible with the 48 Volt 1000 Watt motor

Please let us know if you have any questions.
Hi Robert, both our 36 Volt and 48 Volt 1000 Watt motors have the exact same amount of power, so if three batteries fit better into the battery box than four batteries do, you could use a 36 Volt motor instead of 48 Volt.

You are definitely on the right track for reliability. Upgrading to a 1000 Watt motor and keeping the original gearing will allow the motor to run cool and last a long time.

I do not have an EcoSmart scooter in the shop so I am not able to determine which batteries will fit into its battery box. However we list the dimensions of all of our batteries on our batteries page.

The new controller will have different connectors on it than the original controller has so the original wiring harness will not be able to be reused. However our most common 36 and 48 Volt 1000 Watt controllers have connectors on them for every single part so all of the parts plug directly into the controller which eliminates the need for a wiring harness.

Back to your battery question there is a minimum battery size needed for a 1000 Watt motor. Here is a chart regarding this.

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A 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor will draw around 28 Amps at full power, and a 48 Volt 1000 Watt motor will draw around 21 Amps at full power.


So for a 36 Volt 1000 Watt system three 12 volt 14Ah or 15Ah (or higher) batteries are recommended. And for a 48 Volt 1000 watt system four 12 Volt 10ah or higher batteries are recommended.


Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you for getting back to me. I will order the parts right now. Thank you for being such an awesome place to buy the right parts at better than the right price. BTW I'm actually buying 2 of everything so I can build my wife one too. You guys have a customer for life.

Sorry to bother you guys again with what is probably a stupid question but here goes. I am about to order all the parts to upgrade my Ecosmart Metro Scooter to a 48v 1000w setup. below is the list of items i'm going to order from you. my question concerns batteries. I was wondering if instead of (4) 12v 10ah batteries I could instead use a single 48v 10ah Lithium Ion battery? I know they are more expensive but I'm told they last longer. will the Lithium Ion battery work with your controller and your 48v 1000w motor and will it be compatable with your 48v controller and 48v throttle? I like that it is a single unit.  

Actually that is a great question. A 48 Volt 10Ah Lithium Ion battery (its actually a battery pack made from many smaller lithium ion batteries inside of it) can replace a battery pack made from four 12 Volt 10Ah batteries.

The Lithium Ion battery will be compatible with our controller, throttle, and motor. However if you use one of our throttles with a built-in battery meter then the meter is designed for a lead acid battery pack instead of Lithium Ion so it 25%, 50%, and 75% battery level readings will not be completely accurate because Lithium batteries drop a little less Voltage when they are discharged than lead acid batteries do. The throttle itself and how it controls the speed of the motor will work perfectly normally with a Lithium Ion battery though.


Please let us know if you have any questions.

so does the lithium ion battery really last longer than the lead acid batteries



Lithium Ion batteries are claimed to last around 1000 deep discharge and recharge cycles, while Lead Acid batteries have a typical lifespan of around 300 deep discharge and recharge cycles.

So Lithium Ion batteries should last three times longer than Lead Acid batteries do. Lithium Ion batteries are usually three to four times more expensive than Lead Acid batteries are though, so the price per discharge and recharge cycle cycle is around the same.

Most Lithium Ion batteries have the same one year warranty that Lead Acid batteries do though, so the warranty on them is no better than Lead Acid batteries have.

Lithium Ion batteries do weigh a lot less than Lead Acid batteries weigh, which gives them an edge over Lead Acid batteries in regards to weight. Lithium Ion batteries can also be recharged faster than Lead Acid batteries if a higher output and more expensive battery charger is purchased to recharge them.

However Lithium Ion batteries have a significantly lower maximum continuous discharge rating than Lead Acid batteries do. For example most 10Ah Lead Acid batteries have a 21 Amp maximum continuous discharge rating, while most 10Ah Lithium Ion batteries have a 10 Amp maximum continuous discharge rating.

If you are upgrading to a 48 Volt 1000 Watt motor then it will have the potential draw 21 Amps of power from the battery pack at full power. So a Lithium Ion battery pack with a minimum of 20 Amp maximum continuous discharge rating would be needed to power it.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

thank you for the info. also Im looking for an anti-theft device or a gps tracker for my scooter, do you have a recommendation? Do you guys sell such a unit?

Hi guys its me again. I purchased everything I needed to upgrade my Ecosmart Metro to a 48v 1000watt sysstem from you. below is what I have received for the build (I'm actually building 2 Ecosmart Metro's for my wife and I) I am ready to start wiring it up but I have a question that I trust only you guys to answer. I am going to install an inline fuse for protection using a ATO inline fuse holder. My question is what amp fuse should I use, and where inline should I wire it? or would a circuit breaker be better? Im only asking you guys because I know you guys are the best at this.


2- 48v 1000watt motors

2- 1000watt controller

2 XLR 48v chargers

2-48v throttles with key switch

4 (per scooter) 12v 10ah SLA batteries.


Robert Dunkle

stallionunk8783@gmail.com

I started looking into alarms a couple of weeks ago to answer your first reply and found that we do carry a 48 Volt Electric Scooter Alarm however I was not able to find wiring directions for it so I need to test it and make a wiring instructions guide according to the test results. I will pick up on this where I left off now that I have been reminded about it again and let you know.

We do not carry any GPS trackers however if you find one for use on an automobile then we do have a DC Voltage Converter that will lower 48 Volts to 12 Volt so it could be used on the scooters.

For a 48 Volt 1000 Watt motor and controller we recommend using a 40 Amp fuse or circuit breaker.

The best place to install an inline fuse holder is as a jumper wire between two of the batteries in the battery pack. They can also be installed in the positive line between the battery pack and controller, however installing them as a jumper wire between two batteries provides better short circuit protection than installing them outside of the battery pack.

image


Whether to use a fuse or circuit breaker is a great question. Both types of these circuit protection devices have their pros and cons.

A fuse holder and fuse have a lower up front cost than circuit breakers do however each time a fuse blows the cost increases by the price of the fuse. Inline fuse holders can be wired directly between two of the batteries in a battery pack and used in place of a jumper wire which makes installation extremely easy. The down side of inline fuse holders is that if a fuse blows in the middle of a ride then the footplate needs to be removed to replace it. However we also carry externally mounted fuse holders that would make replacing the fuse easier than with an inline fuse holder because the scooter would not need to be disassembled to replace the fuse.

image


Most circuit breakers are externally mounted and the best thing about them is that they offer a one time upfront cost to purchase, and then there is no extra cost for each time they blow. They are also much easier to use than fuses are because all you have to do is press a button to reset them.


In my opinion circuit breakers are the more modern and user friendly technology. However both fuses and circuit breakers provide the exact same function and either of them can be successfully used on electric scooters.


Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you for the wonderful advice and quick response. This type of customer service is exactly why I purchase all my parts from you. Your knowledge and amazing products lead the way when it comes to how to do business the right way. I have a neighbor who is looking into purchasing a couple of scooters and I let him see your interactions with me on my projects and I also showed him your website. He was to say the least as impressed with you guys as much as I am. I'm sure he will also be a customer soon. Thank you for the help. As soon as I get the two scooters back from the body shop (they are both being painted with House of Kandy Sublime Lime paint) I will send you guys some pictures.


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