This forum is in read-only mode. Please continue to browse, but replies are disabled for now. Why?

Razor Ecosmart Metro increase range and uphill ability

I have a Razor Ecosmart Metro. I am using the scooter in training my dog for sleding (dog pulls scooter along flats, downhill and up hills with motor assist). My course includes flats and hills. The problem is that the dog has more stamina than does the scooter. I don’t need high speed, but I need more range and more up-hill ability. The training course has several steep hills that are too steep for the scooter in its stock configuration. The scooter will power uphill if I walk along side, but I can’t ride it up some of the hills.

After searching the web and your site, I plan on making the following modifications:
Add a 12 volt battery in series to go to 48v
Change motor to your 48v-1000w MOTOR part# mot-481000
Change controller to one of your 48V 1000W controllers (which one do you recommend?)
Change to your 48v THROTTLE THR-75

(Will your 48 volt charger part# CHR-48V1.6AXLR plug directly into the existing charger port and charge the batteries configured for 48 volts?)

Also, I will be adding front brakes and I think I will need your front brake lever LEV-30R.

As far as the up-hill situation goes, I plan on making the battery-motor change and then decide if I need to change the gearing.

OK, given all of that am I thinking in the right direction for this project? Everything I have read on the web leads me to believe that you folks are THE AUTHORITIES in this area, so please give me your thoughts.
Duncan

For a 48 Volt controller, our SPD-481000B 48 Volt 1000 Watt controller is one that we recommend. However, SPD-481000B IS NOT PLUG-AND-PLAY and requires custom installation and wiring to install.


Our 48 Volt charger item # CHR-48V1.6AXLR will plug directly into the  EcoSmart's charger port and charge the batteries configured for 48 Volts.


The MOT-481000 and MOT-481000B motors are designed to rotate in the clockwise direction so they should be mounted in the opposite direction (180 degrees rotation) as the EcoSmart's original motor, which would require mounting them above or in front of the wheel instead of on the side of it. MOT-481000 and MOT-481000B ARE NOT BOLT-AND-GO and they require fabricating a motor mounting plate and attaching it to the frame.


You may also want to consider using our MOT-SD361000 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor which rotates counterclockwise. However, MOT-SD361000 IS NOT BOLT-AND-GO and it requires the original motor mounting plate to be cut off and a new motor mounting plate to be fabricated and attached to the frame.



Our MOT-481000 and MOT-481000B 48 Volt 1000 Watt motors have 11 tooth sprockets for 8mm chain, and the Razor EcoSmart has #25 chain, so either a sprocket for #25 chain would need to be installed on the 1000 Watt motor, or a sprocket for 8mm chain would need to be installed on the rear wheel.


As an alternative to a clockwise motor, we carry a 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 that is designed to rotate in the counterclockwise rotation so it could be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor. Due to the shape of the Ecosmart scooter's motor mounting plate the MOT-SD1000 motor will not fit flush and bolt up to it, nor would the sprocket be in the right position if it could, so installation requires fabricating a new motor mounting plate. Information on fabricating a new motor mounting plate can be found further below in this post. 


For the MOT-SD361000 motor a suitable controller and throttle is the SPD-SD1000 controller and THR-500 throttle. SPD-SD1000 IS NOT PLUG-AND-PLAY and requires custom installation and wiring to install.


MOT-SD361000 has an 11 tooth sprocket for #25 chain so it is compatible with the EcoSmart's original wheel sprocket and chain. 


The MOT-SD361000 motor is considerably smaller than the MOT-481000 and MOT-481000B motors because it has neodymium magnets and the MOT-481000 motors have ceramic magnets. 


When switching from a 500 Watt to a 1000 Watt motor and using the scooter to go up hills the amount of power that the motor consumes will be significantly increased so the range will decrease until larger batteries are installed. 

Thanks for the speedy reply.

OK, your suggestions take me in a different direction than I had been headed.  Let me chew on them and get back to you.

Cheers

Duncan

What is the best battery configuration. 4 12v 10ah lithium ion wired together? Please advise

A 48 Volt controller with 30 Amp current limit is typically used with a 48 Volt 1000 Watt motor and most 48 Volt 10Ah lithium battery packs are rated for a maximum continuous discharge current of 20 Amps, so a lithium battery pack with a higher than 10Ah rating would most likely be needed. 


Another thing to consider with a lithium battery pack is the low-Voltage cut off level of the controller. Most 48 Volt controllers for brushed motors are designed for lead-acid battery packs and have a low-Voltage cut off level of 42 Volts. many 48 Volt lithium battery packs can be discharged down to 37 Volts, so with a 42 Volt cut off level the full capacity of the battery pack could not be used.

You have given me much to consider.


I think that with some small modifications to the deck mount  could fit 3 of your #BAT-12v12a batteries in my Razor Ecosmart Metro battery case.  That's a lot of amps, but I'm asking the scooter to do a lot of work going up hill.


If I go in that direction along with the 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000, what controller / charger / throttle combination would you recommend? 


(Moderator's Note: MOT-SD361000 IS NOT BOLT-AND-GO and it requires the original motor mounting plate to be cut off and a  new motor mounting plate to be fabricated and attached to the frame.)


Thanks for your assistance

Duncan

We do not have a Razor EcoSmart scooter here to check and see, however, we can give you the dimensions of the batteries so you can check. Both 12V 12Ah and 12V 15Ah batteries are 6" long x 3-7/8" wide x 3-3/4" high (151mm x 99mm  x 96mm).


For the MOT-SD361000 motor, we recommend the SPD-SD1000 controller and THR-1000 throttle. For a battery pack consisting of three 12V 12Ah or 15Ah batteries, we recommend the CHR-36V1.6AXLR battery charger


MOT-SD361000 IS NOT BOLT-AND-GO and it requires the original motor mounting plate to be cut off and a new motor mounting plate to be fabricated and attached to the frame.


SPD-SD1000 IS NOT PLUG-AND-PLAY and requires custom installation and wiring to install.

OK, thanks for your reply.

I don't really understand the difference between all of the chargers that you offer.  It seems like you have several that would plug into my system, so why do you recommend the 1.6 amp charger instead of one of the higher out put units if I am going to higher rated (12 or 15 amp) batteries.  Does it have to do with lower rated chargers charging more effectively?

Cheers

Duncan

The lower the Amp rating of the battery charger that a battery pack is recharged with longer the lifespan of the battery pack will be. For this reason, we usually recommend a battery charger that will recharge the pack in around 6-8 hours. However, battery chargers with higher Amp ratings can be used for faster battery pack recharge times whenever a faster recharge time is needed. 


We have a battery pack recharge time calculator that can be used to determine how long it will take a battery charger to recharge a deeply discharged battery pack. 

Ok, I have blindly leaped into the void with this project, and, surprisingly, it has gone well mechanically so far.


 This project involves installing a 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 on a Razor EcoSmart scooter. That motor does not exactly fit into the stock Razor mounting plate so I needed to cut out the old motor mounting plate and make a new one.

 

(Moderator's note: MOT-SD361000 IS NOT BOLT-AND-GO and it requires the original motor mounting plate to be cut off and a new motor mounting plate to be fabricated and attached to the frame.)


The following is a snap of the template for the new motor mount that I made from manila folder stock.  I cut out the stock mount plate with a 4 1/4" cut off wheel mounted to an electric hand grinder from Harbor Freight.  That tool was nimble enough to let me get into tight spaces to cut off the stock welds.  I then switched to a grinding wheel on the same tool to tidy up the rough edges and prep the frame for welding the new mounting plate.


The template shows 7 tabs marked A-G.  These tabs extend about 1" beyond the 'face' of the mounting plate.  The dotted lines show where I have bent the tabs 90 degrees out so that they contact the frame and provide a surface for welding.  Tab G is actually folded 180 degrees in to form a 'strong back' to strengthen that portion of the plate since the gap from tab A to F is not supported by a weld.



image


I used some galvanized sheet metal that I purchased at Ace Hardware and cut it with a jig saw using a metal cutting blade.  I clamped the metal to a work bench with just a small portion of it hanging over the edge for cutting space, and rotated the metal as my cut progressed.  I finished the cut edges with a bench grinder skimming the metal over the edge of the grinder wheel, and smoothing the edges with a wire wheel on the other side of the bench grinder.  I then folded the tabs using a bench vice to hold the tab portion and bending the bulk of the metal over by hand.  In some cases I used a hammer to tidy up the bends.  Then I returned to the bench grinder wire wheel to smooth all of the edges.


The template shows spots 1-3 where I drilled holes for the mounting bolts.  The hole sizes should be just a little bit bigger than the size of the bolt that you choose for fastening.  I used a 1/4' drill and 6mm stainless socket head bolts.  Spot #4 is the center point for drilling the hold for the sprocket to stick through.  I used a 1 1/4" hole saw drill attachment to make the hole.  


Spot #8 is an approximate position for drilling a hole for the bolt to support the chain tensioner.  This placement is a little tricky since the head of the bolt needs to clear the body of the motor when it is bolted on, and the tensioner needs to be in a position that it can swing freely without hitting the nearby nut that holds the motor.  (this will make sense once you have the motor mounted - since the tensioner is spring loaded it need not be positioned too exactly)


This photo of the paper template shows the relative nature of the folds - note that the G tab is folded under to create a strong back.


image


The next trick was to get the front sprocket/motor mount aligned with the rear sprocket.  I mounted the rear wheel but left the chain off.  I clamped a steel ruler onto the 'inside' of the rear sprocket so that it extended towards where the front sprocket should be.  Then I mounted the motor to the new plate and slid that into the frame so that the 'inside' surface of the front sprocket evenly touched the steel ruler.  Using a series of small vise grips, I clamped the welding tabs of the new mounting plate to the frame making sure that the inside of the motor sprocket kept aligned with the steel ruler.  


Once everything seemed snug and aligned, I drilled holes through each of the tabs and the frame section below each tab.  I then used self tapping sheet metal screws to secure each tab to hold the mounting plate in place for welding.  REMEMBER before you tighten down each screw check to make sure that the front sprocket is still aligned with the steel ruler. 


I don't weld, so I took the frame to the local muffler shop and had them do the welding.  They did a nice, clean job and I used the above mentioned hand grinder to clean up the installation.  Not bad at all.  


Since the overall size of the mounting plate is not large, the 6 folded tabs and strong back really make it a flex free unit.  


I will send along photos of the process and finished installation, but for some reason just now they seem to have evaporated from my files.


NOW THE REALLY IMPORTANT PORTION OF THIS NOTE

I jury rigged the electrical system so that I could make sure that the motor turned in the right direction and the chain did not bind, and everything seems good at this stage.  


However, this is where I am stuck -  The stock Razor controller wiring use two wires that are not present on the  SPD-SD1000 controller -see attached Razor diagram with the charging portion of the wiring circled.


(Moderator's note: SPD-SD1000 IS NOT PLUG-AND-PLAY and requires custom installation and wiring to install.)


image


I have figured out the rest of the wiring conversion, but I don't see any place on the SPD-SD1000 controller to plug in the stock Razor charger wiring.  Please help me with this.  


The wiring diagram that came with the SPD-SD1000 controller indicates an available optional wiring configuration that shuts off the power to the motor while the charger is in use, and that kind of configuration can  be seen in the Razor diagram in the lower left corner.  However, I don't see how you intend to connect the charger.


Please give me your guidance in this cuz I'm otherwise ready to put this scooter back on the road.


Thanks for your assistance

Duncan Soldner

We like the template that you made out of manila folder stock. That is what we call using CAD (Cardboard Aided Design) around here.


Thanks for posting the method and ways that you mounted the 1000 Watt Currie motor to your EcoSmart scooter. We are sure that this post will inspire many other people who need their EcoSmart scooter to have more power to follow the same path.


Regarding where to wire in the charger port, on Currie scooters it is wired between the power switch and battery pack. Here is a Currie scooter wiring diagram showing where they wire the charger port into the electrical system.



Basically, the charger port is wired directly to the battery pack. We think that Currie did it this way to keep things simple and to avoid having too many wires and connectors coming out of the controller. 

Hi folks


OK, after installing the 1000 watt motor, controller, and throttle the scooter pulls up hills that it could not previously make - lots of power!  However, I think that I need to make the gearing lower so that the motor does not bog so much and suck up a lot of juice.  Top speed is not our concern, longer running time and uphill ability are our priorities.


It looks like you folks sell an 80 tooth rear sprocket for a #25 chain setup, item #SPR-2580 as well as a chain guard item # SPR-2580-Guard.  Since the plan it to run the scooter on some rough terrain, the guard seems like a good idea to keep things together.


Question 1 - will sprocket #SPR-2580 bolt directly to my existing freewheel?  

Queston 2 - can you supply me with a chain for the resulting setup?  


Thanks for your assistance

Duncan Soldner

Lowering the gear ratio sounds like a great idea since high speed is not a concern and good economy and hill climbing ability are needed.


1 - Yes, the SPR-2580 bolts directly onto the Razor EcoSmart freewheel. 


2 - Yes, we make custom size chain to any size that is needed. The Razor EcoSmart uses #25 heavy-duty chain which we carry on our #25 Chain page. 


We have a Chain Length Calculator which can be used to determine what size chain is needed when installing a larger sprocket. Underneath the calculator, there are instructions for determining what size chain is needed when installing a different size sprocket. 


We can check the calculation to make sure that the chain length for the 80 tooth sprocket is correct. To do this all we would need to know is; how many links of chain are on the scooter now, how many teeth the motor sprocket has, and how many teeth the existing wheel sprocket has. 

OK, thanks for the good news about the easy rear sprocket modification.  That means that I can order your SPR-2580 rear sprocket and mount it directly on the stock Razor EcoSmart freewheel.  So, I will be ordering that sprocket and the SPR-2580-Guard.


Now, as to determining the correct chain length, maybe you can do me a favor.  After installing the 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 that I got from you folks, I have been using the stock chain that came with the scooter.  While your description of determining the new chain length when installing the 80 tooth rear sprocket is very straight forward, can you make the determination for me?  


(Moderator's Note: MOT-SD361000 IS NOT BOLT-AND-GO and it requires the original motor mounting plate to be cut off and a new motor mounting plate to be fabricated and attached to the frame.)


You folks sell exact replacements for the stock EcoSmart chain, so you might already know how many links that chain has.  You also know how many teeth the front sprocket has since you supplied the 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 that came with a front sprocket.  With that information I am sure that you can determine the correct chain that I will need with the SPR-2580 rear sprocket.


(Moderator's Note: MOT-SD361000 IS NOT BOLT-AND-GO  and it requires the original motor mounting plate to be cut off and a new motor mounting plate to be fabricated and attached to the frame.)


I'm asking this favor because I'd rather not make a mistake counting links (I know it is pretty easy) and end up giving you the wrong information.  Also, since we are getting a lot of use out of the scooter now with the new motor, I'd like to keep the scooter together until I have all of the parts in hand to make the sprocket/chain swap all at once.


Thanks for all of your advice and support.  Our project would not have gone together so well without you folks


Duncan  

The SPR-2580 sprocket will bolt directly onto the freewheel, however, we do not have an EcoSmart scooter here to determine if an 80 tooth sprocket will clear the frame. We have a way of doing this which is shown in the drawing below.



The outside dimensions of the original SPR-2565S sprocket and of the SPR-2580 sprocket are listed on our #25 Wheel Sprockets page. The difference in outside diameters between the two sprockets can be determined and then divided by two to figure out what size to cut the cardboard to so the clearance can be checked.


Our parts list shows that the original Ecosmart chain has 86 links and its original wheel sprocket has 65 teeth. The MOT-SD361000 motor comes with an 11 tooth sprocket. If Razor has recently changed the EcoSmart's wheel sprocket or chain size then calculating a new chain size using this data will yield an inaccurate result so without counting the chain links and wheel sprocket teeth please use this information and calculation at your own risk. Using the data from our current EcoSmart parts list here is the result we got.



Chain can be broken to even numbers only so for a 95.59 link result we would round it off to either 94 or 96 links depending on if we thought that a tighter or looser chain would work best. 


Login or Signup to post a comment