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Razor Ecosmart Metro increase range and uphill ability

I have a Razor Ecosmart Metro. I am using the scooter in training my dog for sleding (dog pulls scooter along flats, downhill and up hills with motor assist). My course includes flats and hills. The problem is that the dog has more stamina than does the scooter. I don’t need high speed, but I need more range and more up-hill ability. The training course has several steep hills that are too steep for the scooter in its stock configuration. The scooter will power uphill if I walk along side, but I can’t ride it up some of the hills.

After searching the web and your site, I plan on making the following modifications:
Add a 12 volt battery in series to go to 48v
Change motor to your 48v-1000w MOTOR part# mot-481000
Change controller to one of your 48V 1000W controllers (which one do you recommend?)
Change to your 48v THROTTLE THR-75

(Will your 48 volt charger part# CHR-48V1.6AXLR plug directly into the existing charger port and charge the batteries configured for 48 volts?)

Also, I will be adding front brakes and I think I will need your front brake lever LEV-30R.

As far as the up-hill situation goes, I plan on making the battery-motor change and then decide if I need to change the gearing.

OK, given all of that am I thinking in the right direction for this project? Everything I have read on the web leads me to believe that you folks are THE AUTHORITIES in this area, so please give me your thoughts.
Duncan

For a 48 Volt controller, our SPD-481000B 48 Volt 1000 Watt controller is the one that we recommend.


Our 48 Volt charger item # CHR-48V1.6AXLR will plug directly into the  EcoSmart's charger port and charge the batteries configured for 48 Volts.


The MOT-481000 and MOT-481000B motors are designed to rotate in the clockwise direction so they should be mounted in the opposite direction (180 degrees rotation) as the EcoSmart's original motor, which would require mounting them above or in front of the wheel instead of on the side of it. Due to this, you may want to consider using our MOT-SD361000 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor which rotates counterclockwise. 


Our MOT-481000 and MOT-481000B 48 Volt 1000 Watt motors have 11 tooth sprockets for 8mm chain, and the Razor EcoSmart has #25 chain, so either a sprocket for #25 chain would need to be installed on the 1000 Watt motor, or a sprocket for 8mm chain would need to be installed on the rear wheel.


As an alternative to a clockwise motor, we carry a 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 that is designed to rotate in the counterclockwise rotation so it could be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor. For the MOT-SD361000 motor, we recommend the SPD-SD1000 controller and THR-500 throttle


MOT-SD361000 has an 11 tooth sprocket for #25 chain so it is compatible with the EcoSmart's original wheel sprocket and chain. 


The MOT-SD361000 motor is considerably smaller than the MOT-481000 and MOT-481000B motors because it has neodymium magnets and the MOT-481000 motors have ceramic magnets. 


When switching from a 500 Watt to a 1000 Watt motor and using the scooter to go up hills the amount of power that the motor consumes will be significantly increased so the range will decrease until larger batteries are installed. 


Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thanks for the speedy reply.

OK, your suggestions take me in a different direction than I had been headed.  Let me chew on them and get back to you.

Cheers

Duncan

What is the best battery configuration. 4 12v 10ah lithium ion wired together? Please advise

A 48 Volt controller with 30 Amp current limit is typically used with a 48 Volt 1000 Watt motor and most 48 Volt 10Ah lithium battery packs are rated for a maximum continuous discharge current of 20 Amps, so a lithium battery pack with a higher than 10Ah rating would most likely be needed. 


Another thing to consider with a lithium battery pack is the low-Voltage cut off level of the controller. Most 48 Volt controllers for brushed motors are designed for lead-acid battery packs and have a low-Voltage cut off level of 42 Volts. 48 Volt lithium battery packs can be discharged down to 37 Volts, so with a 42 Volt cut off level the full capacity of the battery pack could not be used. The solution to this is to use our 48 Volt 1600 Watt brushless motor and controller because this controller has a low-Voltage cut off level of 37 Volts so it will work well with a lithium battery pack. 

You have given me much to consider.


I think that with some small modifications to the deck mount  could fit 3 of your #BAT-12v12a batteries in my Razor Ecosmart Metro battery case.  That's a lot of amps, but I'm asking the scooter to do a lot of work going up hill.


If I go in that direction along with the 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 that you recommended, what controller / charger / throttle combination would you recommend?


Thanks for your assistance

Duncan

Unfortunately, we do not have a Razor EcoSmart scooter here to check and see, however, we can give you the dimensions of the batteries so you can check. Both 12V 12Ah and 12V 15Ah batteries are 6" long x 3-7/8" wide x 3-3/4" high (151mm x 99mm  x 96mm).


For the MOT-SD361000 motor, we recommend the SPD-SD1000 controller and THR-1000 throttle. For a battery pack consisting of three 12V 12Ah or 15Ah batteries, we recommend the CHR-36V1.6AXLR battery charger


Please let us know if you have any questions.

OK, thanks for your reply.

I don't really understand the difference between all of the chargers that you offer.  It seems like you have several that would plug into my system, so why do you recommend the 1.6 amp charger instead of one of the higher out put units if I am going to higher rated (12 or 15 amp) batteries.  Does it have to do with lower rated chargers charging more effectively?

Cheers

Duncan

The lower the Amp rating of the battery charger that a battery pack is recharged with longer the lifespan of the battery pack will be. For this reason, we usually recommend a battery charger that will recharge the pack in around 6-8 hours. However, battery chargers with higher Amp ratings can be used for faster battery pack recharge times whenever a faster recharge time is needed. 


We have a battery pack recharge time calculator that can be used to determine how long it will take a battery charger to recharge a deeply discharged battery pack. 


Please let us know if you have any questions.

You folks have been very helpful, but I have run into a problem.  


In an earlier exchange you indicated:  "(a)s an alternative to a clockwise motor, we carry a 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 that is designed to rotate in the counterclockwise rotation so it could be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor" so I ordered it, but the MOT-SD361000 motor can not be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart orginal motor.  


Actually, there are two problems with trying to fit the SD361000 in the EcoSmart.  1) the EcoSmart motor mount plate has a stamped recess into which the original motor fits, but the SD361000 is too broad to fit into that recess.  2) even if the DS361000 motor fit into the recessed motor mounting plate, the drive is too short so it would not align with the wheel sprocket.


I very much liked your idea of upgrading with a motor like the DS361000, but I can't get it to work for my application.  How do we resolve this situation?


Regards

Duncan Soldner


 

When performing custom modifications such as installing a larger motor, metal fabrication is often required.


You may need to think in terms of removing the original motor's mounting plate and installing a new mounting plate that is made and positioned specifically for the new motor. If you do not have access to metal fabrication tools then a fabrication or welding shop could help with the project. 


Please let us know if you have any questions.

Really, that's your answer?  I should cut out the original steel motor mounting plate, fabricate a new mounting plate and weld it back in, or have a metal fabrication shop do the job for me.  Huh.


That advice is not consistent with your earlier statement "we carry a 36 Volt 1000 Watt motor item # MOT-SD361000 that is designed to rotate in the counterclockwise rotation so it could be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor."  Let me repeat some of that - "it could be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor."  


The MOT-SD361000 motor that you sold me cannot be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor, and even if its body would fit in the original location, the drive shaft on the SD361000 is too short to align with the rear sprocket.  


You folks seem to be the largest web vendor of electric scooter after-market parts for replacement and upgrades.  You also offer a lot of exact replacement parts for the EcoSmart scooter, so it would seem to me that you are well positioned to have a lot of expertise about this scooter.  You even sell an exact replacement motor for the EcoSmart so you should have access to an original equipment motor to which you could compare motors that you recommend for replacement and upgrade projects.  With that kind of capacity, your customers should feel comfortable relying on your advice for their scooter projects as I did.   


This note is the tenth in a series of exchanges posted on your website between you and I that began over a month ago.  At no time during those exchanges did you mention that the motor that you were recommending really COULD NOT be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor.  Your words, again, were that "it could be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor."


Now your recommendation is that I engage in substantial structural modifications to the scooter in order to utilize the motor that you sold me.  


That is not an acceptable solution to the situation in which I find myself.  I relied on your representation that the SD361000 motor "could be mounted in the same location as the EcoSmart's original motor" and it was on the basis of that recommendation that I purchased the motor.  Now you are suggesting that I make structural changes to the scooter frame that will undoubtedly void Razor's warranty, and which may render the scooter unsafe to operate.  


Let us see if you can be more creative in resolving this situation.  Do you offer a motor with a body diameter and drive shaft length that would allow it to be installed in the same 'footprint' as the original Razor EcoSmart motor (you have access to such a motor so you can make the necessary measurements for such a determination) that has a significantly  larger wattage rating the the original 500 watt motor?  If you do, exchanging motors for one that will work for my project will go a long way towards making me feel good about this transaction.


I look forward to your reply.

Duncan Soldner

Sorry about that. We misunderstood and thought that you knew the larger motor required custom installation and was not a bolt-and-go upgrade. Unfortunately, we do not carry or know where to get any motors other than the original which are bolt-and-go with the EcoSmart scooter. 


If you do not want to modify the EcoSmart scooter's frame to custom install the larger motor then the only other option we can think of to solve the problem of not having enough power is to sell the EcoSmart scooter and purchase another scooter which has a larger factory installed motor such as the UberScoot 1600W. 


Since we had this misunderstanding and you are not able to use the parts, we could send you a pre-paid return shipping label to return the parts back to us for a refund if you would like?

Thank you for your thoughtful and prompt (within one hour on a Saturday afternoon!) response.  Your obvious concern for resolving this matter to my satisfaction has renewed my lust for the project.  Thanks.


Please let me take a couple of days to see if I can come up with a modification to the motor mounting situation.  It may be that I can do a minimum amount of cutting to the stock motor mount plate in a way that will let me slip the motor in from the left side, with the mounting tabs inside of the plate, and end up with an acceptable chain alignment.  I will make a mock up template and check if such a modification is something with which I can be comfortable.  


In the mean time, I will make every effort to keep the motor in the new condition in which I received it in case I do take up your offer to return it.  On the other hand, if the modification I am considering works out, I will send you the technical specifications and a copy of the cut-out template so that others can decide if they too would like to make such a modification.


Regards

Duncan Soldner



You are welcome and thank you very much for your reply. Also, thank you for understanding that the motor needs to be in new condition to be returned. That would be great if you could upload a template and installation tips for the modification after it has been successfully performed. Please let us know if you have any questions.


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