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Beach wagon

Hi my name is Nick and I have emailed you before concerning building a beach wagon. At that time, I was unsure of the specific's of the wagon. I think I now have all the information I need for you to be able to construct the kit that will best suit my beach agon. The wagon measures 24" x 48". The wagon will weigh approximately 90 lbs. The wheel size is 13" x 6". The will have 1 drive wheel. The size of the sprocket is 8 3/4". The sprocket has 72 teeth and requires a number 35 chain. I think this is all the information that you need. If there is anything else required, please let me know. Thanks....Nick
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We do not have any gear motors with sprockets for #35 chain. The gear motors that we carry have sprockets for either #410 chain, or #41 / #420 chain (#41 and #420 chain are the exact same size however #420 is stronger than #41).


We sell off-the-shelf and custom-made sprockets for #410 and #420 chain: https://electricscooterparts.com/sprockets.html


Our 24 and 36 Volt gear motors that are 450 Watts and under have sprockets for #410 bicycle chain, while our larger 36 Volt 650 Watt gear motors have sprockets for #41 and #420 chain.


For beach wagons that will not carry too much weight and will be geared for walking speed most people use a 24 Volt 350 Watt gear motor, and for beach wagons that will carry heavier loads the 36 Volt 650 Watt gear motors are typically used.


Do you know how much weight the beach wagon will need to carry, and if it will need to go up any steep hills?

Hi, it's disappointing that you don't carry the sprocket for the #35 chain. Would you be able to order one or could I order one to fit to one or your motors? I assume that also means you do not have the chain that fits the #35 chain either? If this is the case, could you or I get this in the same location as the sprocket? Another question I have is regarding the motor. Let's say if the motor is off or the batters were not charged, will I be able to move the wagon? 


Do I need to get something that that will enable the wagon to freewheel? If so can I attach it to the motor sprocket or does it need to be attached to the wheel sprocket. To answer your questions the total distance from my home to the beach is about 250 yards. There is a slight incline going from my home to the beach. This distance is on a paved road. At this point you reach the entrance to the beach and proceed down a slight decline on the sand. Naturally going back this travel will be reversed. The incline will be on the beach and the decline will be in the paved road. The wagon weighs approximately 90 lbs. if you were to add another 90 lbs. in "beach stuff" that would be 180lbs. So with the motors and batteries if you were to use 200 lbs. I think that would be more than enough. I'm trying to do as economically as possible. Lastly although I really like your site. Thanks for any assistance you can give me. Regards...Nick

#35 chain and sprockets are not common to Chinese-made electric motors. These type of motors typically have #25, 8mm, or #420 sprockets. We can not source sprockets for our motors that work with #35 chain because they are not mass produced. We do however sell #35 chain and master links since it is common size for go karts and mini bikes.

For the weight and conditions that you described a 24 Volt 350 Watt gear motor would be a great choice. This motor has a sprocket for #410 chain.

We carry a 12 tooth freewheel sprocket that fits our 24 Volt 350 Watt gear motor. It is item # SPR-B1211FW and can be found on this page: 

https://electricscooterparts.com/electric-bicycle-motor-sprockets.html


We also carry freewheel mechanisms for the wheel or axle. Without a freewheel system in the drivetrain the wagon would be very difficult to move without using the motor. To enable the wheel to freewheel in the forward direction so the wagon can be moved by human power without any drag from the motor, a sprocket attached to a freewheel mechanism could be used. We sell axle adapters, freewheels, and chain sprockets for #410 chain. Here is a link to them:
https://electricscooterparts.com/freewheel-sprockets-freewheels-and-axle-adapters-for-bicycle-chain.html

We carry freewheel to axle adapter that the freewheel threads onto. They can be found at the link above also.

The parts listed above have right hand threads and engage in the right hand rotation.

We have a kit that might be perfect for your project:

https://cart.electricscooterparts.com/24-volt-350-watt-electric-beach-wagon-power-kit-KIT-328-B


We also have dozens of other beach wagon and beach cart kits available at this link: 

https://cart.electricscooterparts.com/store/Search.aspx?SearchTerms=beach+kit


These kits can be modified with different parts such as larger or smaller batteries, different throttle, etc. upon request.

Hi, Thanks for responding. I don't think it's going to be necessary to have anything custom made. I just received the wagon today. I had it made by a company in PA. When I received the wagon I realized the the bore holes on the sprocket measure a standard 2 7/8". I think you may have a sprocket that will work on your site Please let me know. I have attached 2 pictures to show the wheel/ sprocket spacing. Could you please explain in detail how the Free wheel works and how it's attached to the sprocket. Pictures of this set up would help if you have any. I have no idea how the free wheel works. I would need to know how to attach the freewheel to the sprocket / wheel. How far the sprocket needs to be from the wheel. Thanks in advance for you help. Regards...Nick
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We can custom-make a sprocket with 2-7/8" bolt circle diameter. Here is a link to our custom-made sprockets order page: 

http://electricscooterparts.com/custom-made-sprockets.html


If you decide not to use a freewheel then a sprocket with a 2-7/8 bolt hole circle for #410 chain could be ordered for use in conjunction with our 450 Watt and under gear motors. Or if you prefer a 36 Volt 650 Watt gear motors which has a sprocket for #41 or #420 chain then a sprocket could be order for that size of chain. 


If you want to have a freewheel then there is a solution for that which some of our customers have used. The wheel bearing in your photo looks to be around 1-3/8" OD, and our freewheel mechanisms have a 1.375" ID, so there is no way I can see to weld a freewheel adapter onto that rim. The largest ID bore of our freewheel adapters is 1" because there needs to be a little material left on the adapter between its inside diameter bore and outside diameter threads. To install a freewheel adapter onto that wheel would require a flange to be fabricated with a 1" ID bore and 3-1/2" or larger OD that would bolt onto the wheel and the freewheel adapter would be welded onto. A metal fabrication shop could make this flange and weld the freewheel adapter onto it. This flange would basically be a huge 1" ID x 3.5" OD flat steel washer with four holes in it to mount to the wheel. It looks like it might need to be spaced away from the rim a little with washers to clear the end of the bearing. Here is a drawing of this idea.

Here is a photo of the freewheel adapter with 1" ID.

Attaching the freewheel to the sprocket is simply a matter of bolting the two parts together. We have sprockets for #410 chain that are sold with freewheels and bolts so there is no guesswork involved. Here is a photo of this part.


The freewheel in the middle of the sprocket threads onto the freewheel adapter.

The freewheel adapter and sprocket with freewheel and bolts shown above are linked to in my previous reply, and included with the kits linked to in my previous reply.



It looks like this setup would place the sprocket around 1/2" further away from the wheel than it is now, however the freewheel adapter could be shortened on its back side by cutting, sanding, or machining it to make the sprocket fit closer to the rim if necessary.




Hi, okay I think I have all that. But can you please explain the workings of a freewheel. I understand that it attaches to the sprocket. But how does it work. Does the axle have to engage the freewheel adapter? Does the freewheel have to clamp on to the axle? I don't want to do something or buy something and have to redo it again. I don't understand the actual workings of the freewheel. How it disengages so the wheel is able to turn. Are there different ones for different directions. That's what I'm having a problem with. I also don't understand why I can not get a small freewheel sprocket and attach it directly to the motor. I think you sell them on the site. It doesn't have to be for a #35 chain. It could be for any chain the you carry. I can change the sprocket on the wheel to match....thanks Nick
Also, I just thought of this. If I was to take the sprocket with the freewheel adapter attached that is pictured in the above picture. And drill the 4 holes to mount on the rim, will this work for my set up? Or does this freewheel have to be attached to axle? My axle is 5/8's

A freewheel disengages the axle or wheel from the chain sprocket when the axle or wheel rotates faster than the chain sprocket. When the chain sprocket rotates faster than the axle or wheel then the freewheel engages to transfer the power from the sprocket to the axle or wheel.


In the photos that you attached the wheel has bearings which isolate its rotation from the axle, so the axle does not rotate and is stationary, which is referred to as a dead axle. With a dead axle drivetrain the freewheel engages the wheel itself, and not the axle, so the freewheel is mounted onto the wheel instead of the axle.


In a different type of drivetrain than your beach wagon has, with a live axle, the freewheel would be mounted onto the axle and engage it when the sprocket was spinning faster than the axle.


Here is a drawing showing how freewheels work.


We sell freewheels and freewheel adapters that engage and are threaded in both clockwise and counterclockwise directions.


We do not sell any freewheel sprockets that fit our gear motors because they are not mass produced. We do sell a freewheel sprocket that fits our Currie electric scooter motors however the output shaft on these motors spins to fast for the motor to be used on a beach wagon.


If the sprocket was attached directly to the rim with bolts then that would bypass the freewheel and it would not be functional. The freewheel would only work when attached to the axle with a live axle type of drivetrain.


Please let us know if you have any questions.

To be honest I don't understand what your saying in the last paragraph. "If the sprocket ..... My sprocket is attached directly to my wheel. I sent a picture. Does that mean that I'm trying to do something that I can not do based upon this set up? Also I asked you above if the freewheel and the sprocket that you showed in your explanation would work if I attached the sprocket with the freewheel already attached directly to the wheel. I don't think you answered that question. Lastly what are the sizes of the shaft on your motors. If your freewheel attachment are not comparable with your motor shafts would they be comparable with someone else's shafts.
In the last paragraph of my previous reply I was answering these two questions: "If I was to take the sprocket with the freewheel adapter attached that is pictured in the above picture. And drill the 4 holes to mount on the rim, will this work for my set up?" "Or does this freewheel have to be attached to axle?".

The freewheel sprocket and freewheel and FWM-ADAPTER1 freewheel adapter will attach directly to your wheel if the freewheel adapter is welded onto the custom fabricated flange as described in my last reply. This freewheel and adapter engage in the clockwise direction.

Our 450 Watt and under gear motors have an 11mm shaft where the sprocket is mounted, and our 650 Watt gear motors have a 17mm shaft where the sprocket is mounted.

I do not know if our freewheel motor sprockets are compatible with gear motors that other stores sell because I am only familiar with the products that we sell.
Could you please draw a diagram of your solution for the freewheel bracket, the freewheel adapter, the sprocket, and the plate that needs to be fabricated. Coule you please give me a side view so I can see the order that they attach. If I understand you correctly. I would remove the current sprocket that is attached to my wheel. I would have a round plate fabricated to the above dimensions. I would than weld the freewheel adapter to the fabricated plate. I would than thread the sprocket that has the freewheel mechanism attached onto the freewheel adapter. I would than bolt the entire assembly onto the wheel through the holes that were drilled into the fabricated plate. If this drive wheel is on the left right side of the wagon when looking at it what direction freewheel and adapter would I get? Clock wise or counterclockwise? I know that this has been a long conversation but I was under the impression that you had all different size sprockets and free wheel adapters to fit the motors you had. I was not aware of the specifics of the sprockets. It cost me over $80. To have the sprocket attached to the wheel. Now I need to get another sprocket that marries to what you have in the way of geared motors. I also assumed that the geared sprockets would fit the geared motors you sell. If I would have know this I could have made this rear assembly different. Now I'm scrambling to have parts fabricated in order to have this wagon work properly. I want to that you for your time
Sure that is no problem. Here is a front and side view drawing of the flange plate and freewheel adapter which would be welded together. I left the sprocket and freewheel out of this drawing to keep it simple in case you need to show it to a metal fabricator or machine shop. I also attached this drawing as a PDF file which can be easily printed.

Here is a drawing of the side view with the sprocket and freewheel threaded onto the adapter and flange.


It sounds like you understand my freewheel to rim adapter idea perfectly from your description.


Assuming the the sprocket will be installed between the inside of the wheel and the frame, then if the freewheel is attached to a wheel on the right side of the wagon it will need to be a counter clockwise freewheel, and if it is attached to a wheel on the left side of the wagon then it will need to be a clockwise freewheel. I am using the same left and right side terminology that is used for cars where as when you are sitting in the car and facing forward your right hand is on the right side of the car, and your left hand is on the left side of the car.

I understand how frustrating it can be to get all of the different drivetrain parts to work together. I believe that finding the right parts that work together with each other is one of the most difficult tasks of any custom made vehicle project.

 

Please do not hesitate to let us know if you have any further questions.

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Okay, I think I got it. I'll have the plate fabricated and send you a picture when it's done. Now can you please put together a kit that will include all the parts we spoke about. 24 volt motor All connections Freewheel with the sprocket Freewheel adapter Plus everything else in the kit. I would like a reverse if that's not included. Also, the thickness of the handle is 3/4" . Lastly, like a car....if you sitting in the wagon facing forward. The wheel with the sprocket will be the right rear. Please let me know if there is anything else you need from me and the cost of the kit.

I can put together a kit for the project. We will just need to narrow down which parts to include with it.


If you will be installing a freewheel in the drivetrain then the beach cart would not move when the motor is in reverse. To have reverse would require the sprocket to be mounted directly to the wheel without a freewheel.


We have full length twist, half length twist, and thumb throttles that fit 7/8" OD handlebars, and a full length throttle that fits 1" OD handlebars. The throttles that fit 7/8" OD handlebars are available with battery meters, and some of them with switches that could be used for the power switch. The throttles that are compatible with a 24 Volt system are on the following pages:


http://electricscooterparts.com/throttlesstandard.html

http://electricscooterparts.com/throttles24volt.html


  • Could you please let me know the item number of the throttle that you would like included with the kit?
  • Do you know what Ah rating of batteries you would like included with the kit? (I can help with selecting the right size if you are not sure)
  • Do you want the MOT-24350G motor included with the kit?
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